Short memories

Comments made after June 2005 scene busts on iSONEWS forums.

krazy8

http://www.theisonews.com/forums/index.php/topic,132005.50.html

Offline krazy8
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New Busts (June 2005)
« Reply #61 on: 2005-07-05, 04:38:19 »

Quote from: "pHo_vcdq"
No, i'm that guy. But theres a massive level of difference between us (and also this site too) listing files that are going to hit the public domain, and printing nicks etc. We dont' even list RAR passes if they're used, and would certainly remove anything stupid from an NFO some idiot group has put in that we don't think should be.

End of the day, people may frown on sites like vcdq, nforce, isonews etc but I see them from a different perspective. Nobody ever has or will be busted because of these sites. To think that the authorities will learn anything new from pasting NFOs is the kind of naivity thats got the scene into so much trouble of past years. People presume the feds know nothing, and pay zero attention to their own security. If these people happen to know any information regarding to others, then they'll either let it up for trade of their own prosecution, or be duped into giving it up because of their stupidity.

When things are concrete, there's no problem with listing names, sites etc… but there's certain things you don't list in the realms of the public, and rumours just simply don't belong here.

Wow, this is testament to the statements posted all over this thread: the collective 'memory' of sceners and society in general is amazingly SHORT. Does anyone who posts on this board know who I am? I started this site with a swedish bloke (ex-boyfriend of inphi ;) ..sorry bud, had to jab ya) back in 1998. I was busted in '02 for my affiliation with ISONews and served 6 months in a federal prison. Oh yea, right, modchips was the 'official' modus operandi, but every question I was ever asked related to ISONews and had nothing to do with modchips. I never ran an ftp or had group affils. Yea, sure, 6 months is not a really long time but ask yourself this: what would happen to your job, your life, your business, or your family if you disappeared for 6 months? It might screw things up a little, eh? Better yet, try living with a felony. Try applying to live in an apartment complex or for ANY professional license (plumber, realtor, mortgage broker, etc).

And another WOW for those that fathom for even a second that simply because they escaped the paws of justice in this preliminary sweep that they are in the clear. As one gentleman posted earlier, the only ones popped first are the ones that are SLAM dunk cases. Ever read FBI conviction rates? Ever wonder why they are so INSANELY high? They don't bust unless it's a guarantee.

Ever heard of conspiracy? Two people corroborate a statement against any man, innocent or guilty, and I will bet the farm that man goes to jail. It doesnt require facts beyond a reasonable doubt with the feds. It takes two numbnuts, a half-strung story and some circumstantial evidence to nail your ass. These first busts were ONLY THE BEGINNING. Because these guys are nailed to the wall, they will cry for momma and rat out every nick, ftp, affil, conversation, download they can think of for leniency.

THEN, the busts will rattle and spiral out of control. Back around the time i got popped, the big news was Operation Buccaneer. I just noticed a headline dated last month: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/4518771.stm - they still sentencing people from that bust 3 years ago! They even had a guy, Bandido, extradited from Australia to face his charges in the USA.

There is no glory in what used to be the 'scene' - download for fun, don't fuck with it. You've heard this a million times and my words fall on deaf ears….until you or someone you love goes away….or faces fines and court costs you wouldn't believe.

One last thought, since I know the attention span of the intellectuals on this board is minimal. Ever tried proving your innocence? Or thought of the costs associated with provided yourself with adequate legal defense? Picture this: you get charged. At this point you are innocent until proven guilty, right? Now you need a lawyer to defend yourself. You want the public defender or a 'real' lawyer? Of course you upgrade. Now, is this your money of your family's? $10k retainer to start and it will be $30k before you are done taking a plea agreement. Want a trial? That'll be $25k retainer and probably $50k by the time you are done. Oh, you need expert witnesses to testify on your behalf? That costs, too. So, imagine you win….wow, what elation you must feel. You were charged for something you may or may not have been involved with, defended your innocence to the tune of $75k+ and now, lucky you, dont have to go to jail. Only thing is, now you or your family is FUCKING BANKRUPT. No matter how you slice it, you GET FUCKED. THERE IS NO WAY TO WIN AGAINST THE GOVERMENT.

</end rant>

-krazy8

short memories

http://www.theisonews.com/forums/index.php/topic,132005.75.html

short memories
« Reply #80 on: 2005-07-09, 22:35:17 »
Krazy8 mate your banjos playing my tune I am posting this epic mainly because pHo_vcdq take on this bewilders me a bit and that pulls my chain, what killed the "old scene" before is now happing again seems some of us have very short memories …yep i know sad but when you get to my age  .

As a very old scener long long departed and happily at home now in scene.org or trawling through telnet on the BBSses that still exist , I have dodged a few bullets and seen a few old friends go your way Krazy8 either accepting jail time or trying to fight it and be penny less win or lose, granted they got greedy and went all distribution style in RL as well as their online antics, but still it is a mind altering experience it makes you understand this "scene" means nothing when your in that sort of shit and I bet your where just like my buddies as soon as your where busted and news got out no one wants to know and all the doors gets new locks.

To be honest I keep hearing about the "scene" as if it is all about being cloak and dagger and as if it is some hidden society, well it is all bullshit …rules….committees….councils….top sites…fxp leechers …and so on down, when I was a lad and got into it was BBSs MUGs & MUDs a text based delight ,shit hardware, slow connections and it was hard enough to use that 99% of people never bothered, everyone was IND in the beginning groups formed from MUGs & MUDs as well as shared interests like phreaking and hacking most groups where formed from people who new each other in RL…. but then your group really needed ASCII artist and coders and a BBSs with good sysop etc etc so groups started adding members in different cities or even countries and crazy things would happen like FidoNet having disk failure and running from a couple of floppy drives and on the Brush with the law side of things "The Private Sector BBS" official BBS of 2600 Magazine got busted and their sysop got nailed yeah there where busts back then to, those who remember the phoenix fortress sting the sysop it turned out actually wore a tin badge of the silver kind and stupid hackers like the 414's and cherry hills Hacker's Heaven , and the mid to late 90's where not good times for BBSses, and I'll tell how old I am I remember when WOZ sold blue boxes instead of fruit and TAP was my favourite read, and to be fair the mid eighties was when ethics took a nosedive.

When BBSses became the hubs of exchange and also the birth place of many a group it was all about nodes in them days, ASCII art off took I also still have a ton of ansi packs mostly iCE and ACiD stuff ;) hardware got better the Atari and Amiga where the sparks that got the scene going proper, the c64 did have a decent scene but the Atari more so the Amiga fired the scene up, the st had better midi while the Amiga had better graphics capabilities , games and software in general began flowing about from group to group certain BBSses where the wholly grail to a scener strapped for cash. Groups like farlight where founded on a lot more than just releasing cracked software and I remember must have been 87/88 when I first heard of any of their members LCT they where in if I remember rightly & when RAZOR1911 where RAZOR2992 C64 demo group for about 10 minutes also I do remember their member list at one time being 2 whole pages long, sure groups would tag the stuff with demos and intro's but the demo, intro or the crack was the point not the release,

It did get messy as you where never quite sure what you where downloading so some one made a NFO as an after thought so you actually new what you where downloading everyone else began copying the idea and things became slightly easier to find, NFOs most certainly where not intended to be the shit fest they are now, sites like nforce and isonews or vcdquality are dedicated to them? For the general net users so how does that make them scene release information?, and some one referred to the Echlon NFO, a classic from Echelon I think "Old friendships never die. Remember that" had to stab myself in the leg just to stop laughing at that, oh ye of short memories you forgot to add "until they go to jail G" or "until they branch out and a form another group?" ..And what a great NFO, gee whiz do I get all those games in one download, give us a break lads for f*ck sake.

Sure the scene was messy but that was it's attraction, it was about the community. Yes arguments did occur and sure some money did change hands in the rare occasions but it would be pocket change for a pint, yes some distribution groups did gain access and use it for profit by selling through dodgy street markets. as far I and quite a few others where concerned the internet was the beginning of the end, though most good BBSses had shut down by the mid 90's or where in decline through busts and people getting access that should not have had access, a lot like what is happening now with the scene and it was also getting greedy and turning into a bit of a bitch fest , the old scene died bits of it may still be kicking around but in effect it is no more, and this scene will die to it is only a matter of time, nothing lasts forever.

A lot thought the internet was it's blossoming …but even they would be hard pressed to argue most of the community spirit got lost in the transfer though to be honest there was not much spirit left by that time to transfer over anyway, but the demo scene has never lost it's community based vibe pity the release scene if you can call it a scene did , use to be just divisions within groups not separate things…but then some got greedy when music & movies went to disc and became pirate and married distribution groups also when 0-DAY hit the net it created another disastrously stupid pishy warez idea and then dvds appeared we had another greed fest this time for bandwidth and beefy storage, I am sorry but if your only claim to fame is as a site op who got there by offering the data center solution with a couple of san storage units and a pipe big enough to sooth the ego of your favourite group. Your in-sane not in-scene and so are your users, the old scene died bits of may still be kicking around

It has all went a bit to far now and the party is coming to an end, mmm you think not In the old days the law was not tech savvy & very few people had any idea what the scene was about or how it worked or even knew it existed ,the scene was for computer geeks like me who phreaked a bit, coded a bit and loved shit hardware and liked late nights and in the worst case if you got caught you would get a fine with a slap on the wrist and lose some kit, but even back in the supposed good old days things got nasty and the law moved in, So thinking that sites like isonews or nforce or vcdquality are some how not involved because they are on the fringe of the scene and designed for bottom feeders and leechers well don't ask me Krazy8 will tell you the DOJ don't see it that way and the first time you slip up they will be right there waiting, the "scene" used to be full of members now it seems it is filled up with victims or the condemned in and around it .

The bubble Has burst P2P is way out of control, newsgroups and irc are just as bad and bit torrent well my old man is 61 and he uses torrents ?..every where you go in RL some one is selling DVDs or console games or something else they've downloaded from the net and some real greedy but stupid bastards do it as a business and they even have websites…where ever you turn online or in RL it is right in front of you, and a whole industry has grown up around it , that is the releases the so called "scene" releases…without the scene releases at the top of the pyramid the whole thing comes apart ….2 years the FBI spent on LAD and CHUD and krazy8 is right again the will probably spend double that busting people and the man's right again for the third time if they arrest your the conviction is assured .

It now leaves a large section of the scene with very few options, everyone in any way connected with CHUD or LAD or affils or groups busted will be thinking will they be next to be busted and what info do the feds really have on them, also they will be thinking "will we be ratted out", well as jail time is certain you had better believe it chums, also groups and indies who don't profit from it should leave the room now no point being in jail as well as poor, the group's and indies that profit ..can you really trust any new site ops now or even ones you have known say for 2 years ? ..is that new source for titles really who they say they are? Is your existing source for that matter either?.

And because of the above the scene will eat it self in paranoia within months at its current tempo, it is not as if the rumour mill is not running at full tilt I mean welcometothescene conspiracy is fecking brilliant even if it is babble on the fringes. And if it where true in some alternate universe this "scene" got busted because it got greedy and fat and it let its ego explode into outer space and at this rate the busts will keep getting bigger and the scene will keep getting smaller..

The "scene" stop being a "scene" years ago, pHo you said certain things in a NFO should not be for be the general public to see …a big WTF to that….nothing in a NFO should be for public display …..the scene was never intended to be mainstream which it is nowadays, I am not trying to be elitist not at all but idea was you had to be in the scene to know and if your where not then you didn't, and the scene grew from personal contacts, people you knew you would introduce say a friend and others would do the same that way it grew and safely…nowadays it is all done very differently

pHo mate your probably a nice guy and this is not personal but you have the same attitude that the scene has which is why it finds itself in the trouble it is in, to quote you "Never any police/FBI "interest" that we've been made aware of tho" where anyone using CHUD or LAD aware ? 2yrs is a long time to be not aware of some thing like that you would agree, the scene deludes itself thinking online the scene has any bearing on RL online we see our self's as mobile and below the surface that is all very well but in RL we are ones that are static and sites like vcdquality should always remember laws change and fast. Terms like "it is not really illegal according to the law" well if you find a way round a rule then they will just make a new one that does get you, shit like P2P and torrent community has found that one out recently.

Every single Scene rule introduced bar a few early one's have all been about one thing standardising things to make it is easy for people not in the scene .? so how can we on the other hand say our stuff is not for general consumption when we do everything bar install it on peoples machines, I love things getting nuked with tags like "stolen audio" wakey wakey it is all stolen. And here is me thinking the scene was about sharing with fellow sceners . And when you put your shit on a so called top site you know where it is going and fast. And if the "scene" thinks it is going to some how continue at its current state then its stupidity is as large as its ego.

I mean what is the point of my post at this site or even if I had posted it at yours pHo, both have nothing what so ever to do with the scene……… I am right or wrong?, the real crazy thing is it does not matter whether you are or not, the only thing that does matter is do the DOJ or FBI think you are?. And stegg mate if they don't give a fuck why then did Krazy8 spend 6 months as a fashion victim? And don't say mod chips cause there was shit load of people doing it and they did not bother with them and still do not,

And I often wonder if 2 friends who lived luckily for us over 30 miles apart ever thought there would lead to here…strange f*cking world.

Well back to reality….. Flame away ;)

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